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Lighting Points
by cbbdaventry • Fri 25 May 2007 13:22

Hi,
Being able to use up to 8 points per lighting circuit gives great flexibility and is adequate for most situations. Even given that some modern light fittings may have up to five light bulbs even so with care the circuit load will not be exceeded.I am curious to know how single low voltage fittings ( with transformers )say with 25watt bulbs are integrated into a circuit to comply with the 8 points reg.Compared with "conventional fittings" there could be far more units in a circuit with out over loading occurring. On a more practical matter, I understand that for example that 4 light fittings controlled by one switch can not be looped together(daisy chained) but have to be fed from a terminal box.If this the case can I use a British round junction box or is this contrary to French regs.
Cheers cbbdaventry

cbbdaventry
5
May 2007
Re: lighting points
by Dave • Fri 25 May 2007 14:19

I take your point about low voltage lights but this does not allow you to exceed more than 8 units per circuit. There is no guarantee that each of the 8 points will continue to have a low voltage unit or bulb (in France most people will take light fittings when selling the house for example).

4 lights can be joined in a "daisy chain" from one switch but must not be in series, and the earth must be wired so that even if the unit is removed the three others remain earthed (easily done with a push type connector in the socket). This would count as four units.

I don't know if you can or cant use the round junction box, but I would not use it myself. Even when using automatic push connectors (without screws) there is little room in these boxes which are designed for flat twin and earth wire and for an unshielded earth. There are a variety of low cost (from 60 cents or less) French standards compliment boxes and there seem little justification for using this component which won't accept conduit and will when screwed shut crush a rounded cable, perhaps causing a weakness and potential fire hazard. The saving of a few cents isn't worth it IMO.

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Dave
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1432
Aug 2004
Re: lighting points
by cbbdaventry • Fri 25 May 2007 16:29

Hi Dave
Thanks for your prompt reply.One point raised from a earlier answer from you regarding a 1st floor consumer unit . Does it follow that I could have separate units both in the kitchen and in the garage/workshop.

thanks again
Cheers cbbdaventry.

cbbdaventry
5
May 2007
Re: lighting points
by Dave • Sat 26 May 2007 10:38

These are both tricky places, but the answer is mostly yes. You must be careful about the placement in the kitchen, since it can not be above worktops, sinks, windows, cookers as so on, it can mean little suitable space is available. If the garage/ workshop does not have an access directly into the house or is a separate building then you can only put switches in the box there for that space / building and not for other rooms.

You should keep the number of distribution boxes to a minimum if possible (buying one large one for everything). It is not at all recommended or necessary to have multiple boxes, in many locations, in most situations.

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Dave
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Aug 2004
Re: lighting points
by cbbdaventry • Sat 26 May 2007 15:54

Hi Dave
Thanks for your prompt reply.
I am a keen DIYer with particular interest in electrics.It is great have access to an expert in this field. I would like to make general comments about electrics as well as seeking practical advice in the future . Nevertheless I don't want to hog all your time unless you are happy for me to do so.
Many thanks
Cheers cbbdaventry

cbbdaventry
5
May 2007
Re: lighting points
by Arbe • Tue 02 Aug 2011 14:08

Lighting Points
Not in answer to the above but on the same subject..

My understanding of the latest regulations regarding lighting points is that a junction box with combined socket has now to be fitted, so that persons who remove light fittings when they move do not leave bare wires hanging down. How is this achieved if you only have exposed beams as in farmhouses etc. Does anyone know if this ruling also applies to florescent tubes?

Arbe
4
Aug 2011
Re: Lighting Points
by RobertArthur • Wed 03 Aug 2011 23:15

No rules without exceptions. You have to install this so called DCL (total renovation, new building), but if it is not possible because of constructional problems, you have the green light for other solutions.


Kind regards,

Robert

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RobertArthur
280
Mar 2009
Re: Lighting Points
by Arbe • Thu 04 Aug 2011 10:21

Thank you for that Robert, I have to be very correct with my installation because I do not have a certificate and this has been on going for six years now. My original installation was done by a local electrician, but was not passed by the inspector not because it was a faulty installation but because I did not have all the other things that they stipulate, ie a toilet separated by a passage in between. outside toilets forbidden, and so it goes on.

Arbe
4
Aug 2011
Re: Lighting Points
by blaudeix • Fri 05 Aug 2011 18:39

Low voltage lights: they count 300Va as one lighting point. You can daisy chain if the fittings have a spare set of holes, all DCL fittings have.
An english junction box? why? after using a plastic box & wagos (push in connectors) you'll never want to touch a UK jb!
They say lighting point, therefore a fitting with several eco bulbs or otherwise would still count as one.

I'm sure consuel don't give a hoot whether you have a passage between your WC and somewhere else. An outside toilet would be fine, but of course consuel would expect to see a light in all attached outbuildings. I think somebody is pulling your chain :)

Consuel are very picky & rightly so about the volumes in a bathroom but a WC?

The part that is impossible to do without the correct gear is to test the earth resistance, and if that is more than 100ohms then it becomes a fail.

happy sparking! :D

Minimum size for a septic tank (fosse septique) is 3000 litres. All installations must conform to DTU64.1 The S.P.A.N.C. technician will verify this. A principle piece is a room without water larger than 7 metres square.
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blaudeix
163
Nov 2006
Re: Lighting Points
by Arbe • Sat 06 Aug 2011 11:35

blaudeix.
Below is a copy of a letter that I received after I asked why I did not get my certificate. The documents that refer to are somewhere on the web site of the consuel, but the site has changed. An outside toilet would be allowed I suppose if you were to go to the lengths of putting in undergound cables and of course you would need proper plumbing, all rather costly.

I was referring to outside toilets that are not plumbed the one's used in the old days or the type with chemicals etc.

It would seem to depend where you live. We were unlucky to be chosen for inspection as they just take pot luck on these things. But because we have been in the Echo du Berry twice we are now in the spotlight even more so. If you manage to find the said documents you will find that it is quite clear that you must have passage between your toilet and another living area, a door is no longer acceptable.

Not only was I shocked at the requirements but also the consuel general of the Berry, our mayor and several other person. Because my argument was that they should only be interested in the safety aspect of an insulation and not if you want to pee outside or not have a bedroom etc.

It also makes no difference if you own a old property, because if it is a new installation then these rules apply. It would also seem that if you wish to sell your property that an inspection is now made to make sure you have all these things including foss etc. My friend who's husband has just died has been told that the fire she has is not good enough, if indeed she is to change it has not yet been made clear.

So you see no one is pulling my chain, not that it fitted in yet anyway, today is raining so we have to don the wellingtons and an umbrella to visit the toilet as we have the roof off at the moment.

Limoges CONSUEL
06/02/2006
05s180072


Monsieur,

En réponse a votre courrier, nous vous confirmons que l’attestation, CONSUEL fournie ne pourra pas être visée.

Et effet son visa implique la validation de toute une installation, depuis son point de livraison jusqu'à l’ensemble des circuits de toutes tensions et natures de courant associes en vue de l’énergie électrique (articule 8 du règlement d’intervention du CONSUEL).

Nous vous rappelons qu’un logement doit comporter à minima :
 Des pièces principales : chambre, séjour,
 Des pièces de services : cuisine, salle de bain-wc,
Conformément aux articules R111.1-R111.2 et R111.3 du code de la construction.


EN outre l’équipement électrique doit être suffisant pour permettre une utilisation normale d’un logement.

Nous vous demandons donc de bien vouloir faire établir une nouvelle attestation de conformité lorsque l’état d’avancement de l’installation électrique permettra une validation par nos services.

Dans cette attente, nous vous prions de croire, monsieur, l’expression de notre considération distinguée.

Nicolas BOYER



Translation of letter

Sir

In response to your letter, we confirm that the certificate, provided by the CONSUEL cannot be issued.

And indeed this visa involves validation of an entire facility from the point of delivery to all circuits of all kinds of tensions and power associated to the electric power (articulates Regulation 8 of the intervention CONSUEL).

We remind you that a dwelling must include at least:
 The main rooms: bedroom, living room,
 The service rooms: kitchen, bathroom and toilet,
According to R111.1-R111.2 articulated and R111.3 of the code of construction.


In addition to the electrical equipment must be sufficient to allow normal use of a dwelling.

We therefore ask you kindly to establish a new certificate of compliance if the status of the electrical system will allow validation by our services.

In the meantime, we ask you to believe, sir, the assurances of our highest consideration.

Nicolas Boyer

Arbe
4
Aug 2011
Re: Lighting Points
by blaudeix • Sat 06 Aug 2011 13:00

An outside end of garden toilet... hmm I can see why they didn't like it. If you had created a bathroom with all parts correctly fitted (I don't think they have to work)I reckon that would do - well you are going to install a bathroom arn't you?

From reading their letter it is obvious there wasn't enough electric installation spread about the property to be considered a house, if there had been at first inspection I don't believe you would've had a problem.

It seem that you've questioned their authority & they've got the hump & thrown the rule book at you. You infer that being in the newspaper has nothing to do with football

as they say:
En outre l’équipement électrique doit être suffisant pour permettre une utilisation normale d’un logement.

a light bulb & a socket doesn't cut it. If they approved that and then somebody added to it, as they're bound to, one could say it has a consuel visa but its not very valid. Thats why it has to look like a workable house installation.

Then they have the cheek to charge you more a for a reinspection and actually inspect less!

A fire that's not good enough? That's just the opinion of diagnostics so called expert for the waste of space energy ratings (I hope my feeling didn't show through on that comment:)) you have to have before you call put a house on the market.
All but assainissement reports are for information only. The assainissement (septic tanks) one; if issues are raised the purchaser must correct them within a year or face actions (I'm waiting to see what they do though....)

Minimum size for a septic tank (fosse septique) is 3000 litres. All installations must conform to DTU64.1 The S.P.A.N.C. technician will verify this. A principle piece is a room without water larger than 7 metres square.
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blaudeix
163
Nov 2006
Re: Lighting Points
by Arbe • Sat 06 Aug 2011 13:19

It is indeed possible that you are correct, but you see after they came to inspect the electrician who did the work did not want to say why I had been refused, but offered to put a 2000 devit in for a tempory toilet system. So I thought lets ask Limoges direct.

I fully understand that the French law is the Law and we must work towards that end.I wonder how many people know that this certificate in fact is only valid for a period of two years after which they just don't care.

I am coming up to 67 have health problems and only have income of state pension, so I have tried to explain that financial resources are very tight and I can only do so much out of an English pension.

I think the electrician could have pointed out these valid points before starting work.

Arbe
4
Aug 2011
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