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what is a "Breuil"?
by critch • Sun 30 Jun 2013 23:15

There are numerous places around me called "Le Breuil", there is a zi du Croix de Breuil on the way to Limoges, I have also seen sign for "le Breuil de Chene", so it is clearly something, though not in my dictionary. I asked my neighbour, but he is an incomer from the south, and after some reflection said he didn't know - we should ask a paysan. Has anyone else wondered about this word, or is it just me?

critch
13
Mar 2013
Re: what is a "Breuil"?
by virtdave • Mon 01 Jul 2013 00:00

It's a brake, or spinney

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virtdave
1112
Sep 2008
Re: what is a "Breuil"?
by Pamski • Tue 02 Jul 2013 10:00

I've often wondered about that too! Thanks VirtDave for the translation!

Pamski
24
Sep 2011
Re: what is a "Breuil"?
by virtdave • Tue 02 Jul 2013 11:49

A few years ago I translated an excellent history of Saint-Georges-Nigremont, by my late friend Réné Eucher. I had to find translations for some fairly obscure words, mostly relating to agronomy. Here is a list (La Breuil de Chêne would be the Oak Copse):
combe: dell
varenne: game preserve
lande: heath
brande: burned-over heath (as a first step in converting a heath to a field)
breuil: brake, or spinney
fûtaie: timber-forest
perchis: pole-plantation
méris: pasture-wood
gâtine: clearing
deffend: field enclosed by a crossed fence of thin poles
plessis: arable plot of middling size, surrounded by hedges
segrais: woodlot
artige: wood recently transformed into fields
vaine pâture: free range
écobuage: burning-off of fields (denshering, in similarly obscure English agronomic terminology)
essartage: grubbing
soutènement: building of retaining walls around a field
remblayage: land-filling
drainage: drainage(!)
assolement: crop rotation
bouige: land subject to écobuage or essartage
novale: recently broken-up land
pâquis: small to middling sized pasture, surrounded by a natural fence (stones, hedges)
prade: meadow
ouche: fertile land near a habitation
guéret: fallow field (and, incidentally, the name of the capital of the département of Creuse)
rive: field by a stream
sagne: drained pasture
noue: water-meadow
pesquière: small drainage

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virtdave
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Sep 2008
Re: what is a "Breuil"?
by critch • Tue 02 Jul 2013 21:13

Wow, that must have been a labour of love! And it also explains "Les Devants de la Grande Sagne". Many thanks for the info, I do like good list.

critch
13
Mar 2013
Re: what is a "Breuil"?
by Annik • Wed 03 Jul 2013 10:17

Thank you very much. I had come across some of the words while doing my analysis of the 1819 cadastre of the commune but many are new and very useful to know.

I did the work in the days when I had enough money to splash out a dictionary of the rural world, which cost a amazing 80€, but was frustrated that so many of the words dealt with were from other regions and didn't quite cover what I was looking for.

Best wishes

Annik

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. (Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.)" Groucho Marx
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Annik
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Jun 2007
Re: what is a "Breuil"?
by Creusebear • Wed 03 Jul 2013 20:10

I like a good list too. I am haunted by a book that I knew I should have bought when I saw it but didn't as I thought it too pricey. It gave the roman root for all the lieu-dit manes in Creuse. I shall have to go back and see if it is still there

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Creusebear
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May 2007
Re: what is a "Breuil"?
by virtdave • Thu 04 Jul 2013 10:29

I am almost sure I have the book you mention, but it seems to be in California. If I remember, I will look for it next winter....

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virtdave
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Sep 2008
Re: what is a
by Creusebear • Wed 21 Aug 2013 10:00

Well - went back to the shop and of course it was no longer there. Now I really want a copy! Virtdave, could you send me the ISBN number of your book next time you are next in the Golden State?

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Creusebear
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May 2007
Re: what is a
by Creusebear • Thu 22 Aug 2013 21:04

I saw that one on my (so far) fruitless search but it wasn't it. The one I saw was specifically linked to Roman origins of place names and I think Creuse based. Thanks anyway.

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Creusebear
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Re: what is a
by Creusebear • Sat 24 Aug 2013 16:10

Nope - not that one either. Sorry to be awkward :D THe one I want specifically refers to the Roman legacy through the place names, I think it was based on the Creuse but it could have been Limousin. Thanks for looking.

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Creusebear
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May 2007
Re: what is a
by dissid32 • Tue 17 Sep 2013 18:25

Today I got a book from the library called "Les Noms de Lieux de la Creuse: Archeologie et Toponymie", which gives origins of place names, whether Gauloise, Roman or Germano-Latin, by Marcel Villoutreix. I thought it might interest you. I shall probably take it back next week, so if you order it from your local branch, that's if you're in the Creuse, I should imagine it'll be available.
Unfortunately it didn't have the name of my hamlet: perhaps it's too small.

Patrick
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dissid32
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Feb 2006
Re: what is a
by SIMON • Wed 18 Sep 2013 11:25

Hi
Just wondering as you have the book of place names can you let me know what LAFAT means.

SIMON
35
Jan 2013
Re: what is a
by dissid32 • Wed 18 Sep 2013 22:15

I'm translating. It comes under the heading of isolated trees, and the word for a beech tree in old Occitan is "fag or fau" from which you get various names, like Faux-la-Montagne, and "Lafa" 1268, 1388, "La Fa", 1436, 1499, down to "Lafat" nowadays .

Patrick
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dissid32
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Feb 2006
Re: what is a
by dissid32 • Wed 18 Sep 2013 23:10

Reading back a bit I see that the Latin for a Beech is "fagus", which presumably became "fag or fau" in Occitan. Sorry, I missed that at first.

Patrick
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dissid32
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Feb 2006
Re: what is a
by SIMON • Thu 19 Sep 2013 09:11

cheers for that Patrick, seems like an interesting book to read, looked on amazon unfortunately it is not available.

if you don't mind what does CHADREUGNAT mean.
Thanks
Simon

SIMON
35
Jan 2013
Re: what is a
by Creusebear • Thu 19 Sep 2013 20:13

cheers for that Patrick, seems like an interesting book to read, looked on amazon unfortunately it is not available.
Said SIMON
I think I saw something like it in the local Intermarche - might be worth a look.

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Creusebear
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Re: what is a
by dissid32 • Thu 19 Sep 2013 22:49

Botheration! To put it mildly. I wrote a reply about Chadreugnat, but when I submitted it it went into outer space.
I'll try again. Chadreugnat isn't in the book. It seems as though the suffix -gnat indicates a persons name. So, for example for Luzignat this is what it says:- Luzignat (Domerot) : Lezignat, 1426. Nom d/h latin Licinius, tres courant (CIL XII et XIII) + acum. Then Liciniusacum somehow becomes Luzignat. I've no idea what.the name could be in Chadreugnat, though. A Roman, or a Romanised Gaul, I suppose.
Best I can do.

Patrick
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dissid32
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Feb 2006
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